-------------------------Thu May  8 16:46:16 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

GOD i love jan
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 16:47:29 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

sex tips from jan
GOD i love her
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 16:49:15 1997
0x102f is Toshiba

(from /afs/cs/project/netbsd-src-1.2/usr/src/sys/dev/pci/pcidevs.h)
 -Todd Williamson 

-------------------------Thu May  8 16:49:42 1997
Hmm, thanks. I wonder why DEC is shipping me boards with a Toshiba vendor
ID. OEMing without looking both ways, I wonder?
 -Jim Zelenka 

-------------------------Thu May  8 16:57:30 1997
@b(From): Chris Nelson [Fuzball]  (via thang)

Hm.  My desire to leave at 4:30 conflicts
with my desire to attend a meeting with 
marketing at 4:00.

Wait, where the heck did *that* desire come from?
 -Chris Nelson [Fuzball] 

-------------------------Thu May  8 16:58:08 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

Chris has been compromised.
Abort to plan Q.
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Thu May  8 16:59:56 1997
@b(From): Chris Nelson [Fuzball]  (via thang)

But I just figured out a cute VLIW trick to
optionally evaluate a new condition without
adding any instructions.
 -Chris Nelson [Fuzball] 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:00:40 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I just went to the library to chase 10 references,
of those:
4 were bogus (bad journal/volume/page triple)
2 were gratuitous self-citations that had nothing to
 do with where they were cited in the original paper.
the remaining 4 were related, but were not the droids
I was looking for.

my mood was @b(not) improved by this expedition
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:01:28 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

sex tips from Jan?
could I buy some context?
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:02:34 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

talking about a hydraulic desk chair and how it can be useful
also, we were taking about cynthia heimel who's first collection of columns
was called _Sex Tips For Girls_
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:02:37 1997
@b(From): Chris Nelson [Fuzball]  (via thang)

plan sex!
Q tips!
 -Chris Nelson [Fuzball] 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:03:04 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

adjustable chairs are nice
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:03:05 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

Q sex!
plan tips!
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:03:13 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

except the wheels can make things challenging
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:03:23 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

am i the only one who doesn't know about this?
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:03:50 1997
Sex?  No.
 -Goob 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:04:04 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

:-p
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:04:13 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

chairs are very near and dear to my heart
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:04:25 1997
"Kinky!"
 -Goob 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:05:05 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

the longer i live the more i realize how boring my sex life is
when i actually have one
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:05:29 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I'm tactfully refraining from comment
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:05:30 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

kill me before it's too late!
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:05:50 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

why, thank you greg
maybe the marriage won't be off after all
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:09 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

ok
please someone fill me in on the adjustable chairs secret

or is the secret not that they are adjustable, but that they are springy
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:11 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

ALCHYMICAL UNION
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:25 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

you can adjust the height
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:28 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I vote for adjustable
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:33 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

yinz
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:39 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

axe!
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:46 1997
@b(From): Chris Nelson [Fuzball]  (via thang)

Axel!
 -Chris Nelson [Fuzball] 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:46 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

gerg!
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:53 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

ask axel!  :-)
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:06:57 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

?
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:05 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

sounds like Jan and I are in agreement on this one
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:26 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

i've probably got about 5 minutes before cadence manages to get all its locks
in order...
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:30 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

about adjustable chairs, nevermind, you came in in the middle of the
conversation
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:37 1997
'Night, everyone...
 -Goob 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:43 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

bye goob
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:47 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

Uh, I'd think no arms might be an advantage in such a situation.
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:47 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

night goob
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:48 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

night?  later goob!
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:07:49 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

so to speak
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:08:11 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

so... a good chari to have sex in?  what was the question?
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:08:22 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

no arms good
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:08:35 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

axe: exactly
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:08:40 1997
@b(From): Steve Gifford  (via thang)

Are we talking about sex *with* chairs or *in* chairs?
 -Steve Gifford 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:08:46 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

im still not following on the adjust the hight bonus of it all
umm...so?
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:12 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

you can, um, "match up" certain "regions" of "anatomy"
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:11 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

"but which is probably quite incapable of
drinking the coffee"
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:15 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

really it's not the height thing, it's the ability
to both roll around the room and spin around
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:19 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

well, definitely need stable legs.  wide stance on the chair legs.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:40 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

sex with chairs
yeah!
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:43 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I happen to have an armless adjustable desk chair
of which I am quite fond
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:52 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

watch out for the bending part!
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:09:55 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

i can see the no arms bonus
the coasters would work well
heh
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:10:09 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

arms aren't bad.  if the guy slouches the nthe girl can rest her thights
on the arms if they're not too high.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:10:25 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

okay!  stop!
enough!
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:10:26 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

Axe just took us to the next level of explicitness
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:10:32 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

axel's been busy
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:10:36 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

i have a wide chair with low arms.  i think ti would work ok.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:10:48 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

STOP!  NO MORE!
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:10:52 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

theoretically, i mean.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:00 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

hey, YOU ASKED!
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:02 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

now now you're working poor fleur into a tizzy.
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:11 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

man, when did yinz get all prudish?
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:13 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

no, i told someone else to ask you and no one did
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:15 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

i suppose adjustments in height can make oral sex easier
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:31 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

I've got chairs with arms, chairs without arms,
chairs with rollers, papasan chairs. It's never
helped me get a girlfriend. 
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:35 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

okay, i'm closing the thang window
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:46 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)



we just slid over the edge
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:48 1997
@b(From): @b(nerak-atem)  (via thang)

wait.. do they make those "ergonomic" knee chairs with wheels? would
that (uh, sex) even work. hrmm
 -@b(nerak-atem) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:58 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

How 'bout "Less far to fall if you prove too uncoordinated."
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:59 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

boy, fleur sure is touchy, isn't she?
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:11:59 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

it's not for getting, andy, it's for after you've got
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:12:14 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

(On the other hand, none of my chairs have funny stains
on them.)

(Except the one from Dan's awful going-away cake.)
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:12:19 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

this conversation is completely busting me up
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:12:50 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

"there's nothing like kicking off the wall and
rolling across the room at the moment of climax"
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:13:12 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

heh fleur
what I originally thought you were implying

is that since the adjustable chairs usually spring/lean back
you could conceivably get into a motion
where one persons is oscillating back and forth on the chair
and the other isn't/is oscillating the other way
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:13:20 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

as you're working late some night, headphones cranked, and chair zooms
by your office door with two naked people...
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:13:20 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

"and then hitting the other walla nd falling on teh floor, a nd then
oooh what a mess!"
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:13:44 1997
@b(From): @b(nerak-atem)  (via thang)

better block any stairwells
 -@b(nerak-atem) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:14:16 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

sailing across teh room
hitting the wall, missing the hole covered by the towel
falling to the floor, missing the grate covered by the satchel
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:14:16 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

woo!  woooo!!!!!  yow!!!!!!  wooAAAAIIIEEEEE!!!!! *thud*
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:14:17 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

okay, I've stopped laughing now.

my sides hurt though
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:14:21 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

okay, fine, i have to read this
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:14:29 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

great... I'm laughing again
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:14:39 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

"press button"
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:15:10 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

oscillations

mmmm
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:15:17 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

now you know what sucks for sex, bench seats in cars. (while you're driving, i mean)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:15:17 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

Fleur has died.
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:15:27 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

She's dead now.
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:15:36 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

heh
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:15:45 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

oh well...
guess the wedding's off
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:15:55 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

who's getting married?
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:06 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

you are, dummy
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:13 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

gerg and fleur?  she needs to get a stomach for explicit sex detail...
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:16 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

fleur and I.
marriage of convenience
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:16 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

(sorry, had to say it)
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:25 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

(oh yeah, me)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:30 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

me and greg
marriage of convenience
hwever i didn't know there'd be desk charis involved
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:49 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

i've long wondered what the 'convenience' is.
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:50 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

axel, you misinterpret my agitation
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:16:53 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

look honey, you brought up the topic

@small(so to speak)
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:17:00 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

thank you
thank you
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:17:08 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

i think i interpret the agitation just fine :)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:17:35 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

(hi!)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:17:38 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

my sides hurt
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:17:49 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

maybe you need a chair without arms.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:00 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i'm *definitely* saving the log of this one...
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:04 1997
@b(From): @b(nerak-atem)  (via thang)

heh
 -@b(nerak-atem) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:14 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

i'm sitting in a chair without arms
and wheels
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:16 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i HAVE a chair without arms
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:27 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I didn't even begin to touch on the 
use of the height adjustment lever
"during the process"
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:40 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

i have a chair with arms.  of course, i've also got a couch in the office.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:40 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

wow, talk about lazy!
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:18:57 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

my chair at work has arms.
plus it has metal bits poking through the
seat.

it would not be "good for this"
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:19:00 1997
@b(From): @b(nerak-atem)  (via thang)

careful with that. if the chair is too pneumatic, someone could go
flying
 -@b(nerak-atem) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:19:15 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

woo!  woooo!!!!!  yow!!!!!!  wooAAAAIIIEEEEE!!!!! *thud*
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:19:17 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

yeah, explain THAT one to the paramedics
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:19:21 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I was thinking more of raising the chair to maximum hight
then 
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:19:31 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

ow
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:19:33 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

ow.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:19:39 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

heh :)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:20:05 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

that wouldn't hurt
at least not in a *bad* way...
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:20:14 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

axe! off my wavelength!
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:20:20 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

you ain't been with the right man, fleur.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:20:24 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

that's been muh experience.

uh, hypothetically that is
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:20:25 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

;)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:20:37 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

of course I sent that before I saw axel's
comment
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:20:56 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

diq
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:21:16 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

oooh beautifully low, gerg
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:21:31 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

diq?
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:21:54 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

cannot laugh anymore
diaphragm too tired
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:22:10 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

i think i ate my sense of humour
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:22:24 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

that's another concern with the *thump* method.  carefule with the diaphragm...
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:22:37 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

HE SHOOTS! HE SCORES!!!
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:22:40 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

*thump*!
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:22:45 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

@small[uh sorry]
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:22:52 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

heh :)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:23:19 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

must
not
scroll back
window

must
avoid 
further
laugher
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:23:20 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

slam dunk.  from the three point line (if ya know what i mean)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:23:24 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

laughter even
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:23:48 1997
@b(From): moose  (via thang)

hey, it all depends on your favorite, er, sport, you know?
 -moose 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:24:10 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

ooo! ooo!  wheeeeee!  *thump*!  whoa!
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:27:21 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

I like this resume url much better--it's much shorter:
http://newfield.org/dale/
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:27:36 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

And no tilde to explain to people over the phone.
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:28:39 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

ah... the sweet, soothing
sounds of metallica
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:29:45 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

idempotent!
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:29:58 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

my hoem office chair is all yucky
I also have a kneeling chair

hmm
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:30:01 1997
@b(From): Chris Nelson [Fuzball]  (via thang)

Oh man.
I was listening to Metallica on the radio last night.
And I started to get anxious in the middle of one song.
I somehow thought that the song was about to stop in the
middle and that something bad would happen.  When that
point passed without anything happening, I was confused.
I finally realized that that's where my CD alarm clock always goes off.
 -Chris Nelson [Fuzball] 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:30:21 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

heh...
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:30:42 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

ive also seen kneeling chairs
that could spin around
and were on coasters
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:31:56 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

he's dead Jim!
let him be!
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:32:14 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i'm done
i'm going home
'night all
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:32:44 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

later BABE
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:32:51 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

:)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:33:05 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

:-p
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:33:11 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

night fleur
reply 
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:33:22 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

yessir
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:33:33 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

@large(now that's what I like to hear!)
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:34:37 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

yessir
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:34:51 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

nosir
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:35:13 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

somehow it's just not the same coming from
you Axe
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:36:51 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

heh.
the cam caught me looking like I had been hung:
http://ionic.chem.cornell.edu/~landrum/hung.jpg
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:36:54 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

nope, i'm not so squeamish
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:36:56 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

:)
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:37:15 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I love my noose
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:38:03 1997
@b(From): axe  (via thang)

i think fleur needs to look at the jpg.  to see
how you're hung.
 -axe 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:38:24 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

that one was too easy axel
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:47:06 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

but, heh so are you
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Thu May  8 17:47:28 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

;-)

(I had to, as THAT was too easy)
 -DJ Marcus 



-------------------------Fri May  9 09:56:37 1997
>did anybody find a copy of the "Russian journal of physical chemistry", year
>1962, somewhere in Hamerschlag or Roberts Hall ?
>I remember I left it somewhere yesterday (Thursday) afternoon on the way
>from the library to my office.

Wow, too much computer science. I found myself thinking, "What the hell
good could a 1962 journal possibly be?" Then I remembered that the field
of chemistry is a bit, uh, older than I usually deal with.
 -Jim Zelenka 

-------------------------Fri May  9 09:57:18 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

heh.
yessir, you are right.

I regularly cite papers from the 50's and 60's
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 09:57:50 1997
"Computer Science- as a field, we're like that asshole teenager next door."
 -Jim Zelenka 

-------------------------Fri May  9 09:58:08 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

the oldest thing I've ever cited was from 1887
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 09:58:41 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

Chemistry- as a field, we're like that crotchety old fart
 up the street who always yells at you to get off his lawn.
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 09:59:00 1997
Yowza.

I've routinely cited papers from the 18th and 19th centuries for various
history papers. I'm not sure what the oldest I've ever cited is. I think for
CS, I once cited a paper from the 60s.
 -Jim Zelenka 



-------------------------Fri May  9 13:04:28 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i don't tiemize deductions, but i have to fill out
a schedules b&d
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:04:33 1997
ah.  i think i got all my interest/dividends via a k1 distribution, which is
slightly different and an still go on a 1040a or something
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:04:36 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

heh.  b&d.  heh.
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:04:45 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

B&D
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:05:02 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

netlag
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:05:04 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

yeah! yea! mail from kent!
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:05:06 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

that reminds me
i need to get a chair
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:05:08 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

I made $13 in interest once.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:05:13 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

we are not going there
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:05:52 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

who is strong@dementia.org?
if it's tom strong, i vote no
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:05:57 1997
it is
 -Derrick J Brashear 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:06:03 1997
get an aeron chair.  they rock.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:06:05 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

it's Tom Strong and
I agree wholeheartedly with fleur
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:06:20 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

I don't remember him but i am sure i didn't like him.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:06:40 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

STOP WITH THE CHAIRS
@small(i get to see your office if i come visit, right greg? ;-))
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:06:51 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

yes fleur, but the cool chair is at home.
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:07:09 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

@small(which is a much happier place for it to be)
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:07:42 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

I like him.
That said, I'm not sure D&E is the appropriate crowd for him.
(Although he's probably in Pittsburgh feeling a little old to still hang
 out with CMU folk, and looking for more people to socialize with...)
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:09:00 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

"But I believe in my heart... you will do what's right"
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:09:41 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

@@Beavis(The Chair!  The Chair!)
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:09:42 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

> In fact, as we tell folks at trade shows: "Once you've installed it, MkLinux
> is really just Linux.  You'll have to give up a few things, of course--DMA
> vectors, IRQ settings, jumpers, incompatible BIOS code--but basically, it's
> just Linux..." 
heh
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:09:58 1997
macintouch reading weenie
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:10:06 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

thats me!
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:10:19 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

weenie touching mac reader
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:10:50 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

no comment
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:11:28 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

it's MAY!
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:11:32 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

boy, I wanbt to eat but I am not really hungry
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:11:46 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

(completely unrelated)
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:11:51 1997
whoa, yahtzee for pilot
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:12:22 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

yeah.  i'm waiting for my current good vibrations order, m'self
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:12:42 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

what you getting?
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:12:51 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

HATE JAVA HATE HATE HATE
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:13:21 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

That doesn't sound like something Good Vibrations would sell.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:13:37 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

the exit to eden read by gillian anderson
and, um, well, some books, and a, um, how-to tape
let's leave it at that
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:13:42 1997
my sister almost left her catalog lying around before my parents got back
from london.  that and the 17 beer bottles in the fridge.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:13:59 1997
so what's this rumor that tea leoni and david duchovny got married.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:14:06 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

"how-to tape"?
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:14:14 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

this was the sexuality library catalog i ordered from
no toys
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:14:22 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

Uhhhh fleur, that how to tape... is it what i think it is?
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:14:52 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

what? piercing?  no.  GV doesn't have that stuff.
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:15:27 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

no, something else you said that you wanted more instruction in.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:16:50 1997
@b(From): DJ Marcus  (via thang)

the chair!
 -DJ Marcus 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:17:04 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

no not the chair you dang idjit!
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:17:21 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

oh, yeah
it is
i got the kit.  book and video.
the video i alredy have isn't too, well, instructive
now i just need someone to practice on
when are youcming to visit again?
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:18:08 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

Tonight?
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:18:19 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

curiosity piqued, greg starts guessing
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:18:24 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i haven't got the stuff in the mail yet
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:18:58 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

his first guess is "massage related"
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:19:03 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

let me know when you do!
I'll be there in 4 hours. That should be enough time for you to get through
chapter one.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:19:55 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

just about everything sexula that doesn't involve ropes or whips is
"massage related"
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:20:13 1997
what about lettuce?
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:20:18 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

well, since you are asking chris to help you out,
I know it can't be too sexual
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:20:28 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

shh, about the lettuce, faisal.
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:20:53 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

Its okay, I would like ton state for the record that
I have never dated Fleur Dragan
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:21:11 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i didn't ask chris to help out
he volunteered
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:21:33 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

fine.
okay.

so I'm not wearing the "smarty pants" today
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:21:38 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

Hey thats right!
Man, you got a good memeory!
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:22:40 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

lettuce?  nevermind.  i don't want to know.
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:22:48 1997
damn right you don't.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:23:04 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

I like cheese.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:23:46 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

we'll just call you easy cheeze.
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:23:50 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i'll stick withthe tradional things
whipped cream, cucmbers, etc.
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:24:03 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

Kumkuats
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:24:14 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

me too.
(oh...wait...)
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:24:23 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

brendan, chris would be justified in really hurting
you for that comment
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:24:44 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

hurt me!
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:24:55 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

j/k
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:25:26 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

yeah, chris
when you going to get out of you hyperslut mode?
i can't keep track!
you're back with nosferatu?  WTF!?!?!?
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:25:51 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

wait, who said anything about nosferatu?
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:26:03 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

"we have spies everywhere"
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:26:16 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

@@slyly(i have my sources)
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:27:00 1997
i'm also glad that the netscape text selection code causes netscape
to crash.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:27:37 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

ahhhh whatever...
prolly wandi...

anyway, she and I are friends and we occasionally have sex. its much better this
way because its not all psycho. ellen is the one who told me to fuck off and
lynn is the punk rock stalker who has finally had her day.
and she'll hav it again tomorrow if i have anything to say about it.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:28:30 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

I am not keeping track of this.
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:28:39 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

lynn?  what?  WHY do you lead on people you KNOW are psycho?
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:29:03 1997
i can't express the maniacism of my laughter right now.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:29:05 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

Its okay. I actually had to create a large database and neural net to
keep track myself.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:29:09 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i expect jim has long since punted too
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:29:17 1997
maniacalism?  mania?
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:29:28 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

There is no leading on of lynn. not anymore at least...
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:29:39 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

yeah, i was thinking of you when i wrote that too
comma you bastard
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:29:42 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I'm gonna get some work done and I'm
tired of hearing about Chris's sex life.

iconifying thang now
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:30:08 1997
http://prandtl.me.cmu.edu/wwws/
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:30:13 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

You know. I didn't bring this up.
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:30:51 1997
now *there's* a good application for msql
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:31:40 1997
yeah, i think i'll use that for my raima test case
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:32:19 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

Ummm... I can provide more data and more nodes but not on thang
I'd make myself sick
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:32:40 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i like listening to chris
i live vicariously through him here

plus heiser and i already had a detailed java/jdbc/msql wwws discussion...
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:33:25 1997
i think i need to move to new york and go work for a smalltalk body shop.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:33:52 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

i think you need to go back to school
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:34:17 1997
yeah, then i might be able to get a job in the computer industry.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:34:50 1997
wwow, the new parkplace home page is designed to be REALLY GRATING.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:35:02 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

must...not...reply...must...be...strong...
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:37:13 1997
hey cool, Parts for Java.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:37:22 1997
Hi, quick cameo. Wassup? I blew away old messages without reading.
 -Jim Zelenka 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:37:40 1997
Someone summarize for me.
 -Jim Zelenka 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:37:42 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

JavaBeans, you mean?
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:37:54 1997
@b(From): Steve Gifford  (via thang)

Oh look, Chris' sex life.
 -Steve Gifford 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:38:21 1997
@b(From): Steve Gifford  (via thang)

I'll skip it now and wait 'till the movie comes out.
 -Steve Gifford 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:38:22 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

STOP IT!
I didn't bring it up! I really didn't!
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:38:29 1997
Parts = ParkPlace-Digitalk RAD stuff.
It used to e Smalltalk only but they ported it to Java.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:38:33 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

Heh!
@small{>How much effort has gone into producing Kasparov, on the evolutionary
>scale?

Exactly as much as went into producing Deep Blue.  First you evolve
some hardware designers and programmers...
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:38:52 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

It's a component architecture for Java.
COM/OLE/OpenDoc for Java.
There are some important questions, though...
(Maybe I'll send a copy of this paper
 to the list when we're done.)
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:39:27 1997
why is yahoo configured to give me a search of altavista
if i wanted altavista i'd go there.
this web branding shit is getting on my nerves.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:39:30 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

2-2, next game not until tomorrow?
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:39:58 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

Next game in an hour and a half.
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:40:06 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

Ah.
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:40:08 1997
i can't decide if it's worse to put a mature component technology
on an immature foundation (parts for java) or go immature all
the way (javabeans)
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:40:44 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

Doesn't matter. It'll never work out either way.
:-P
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:41:00 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

Is there any functional specification
associated with "Parts"?
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:41:14 1997
@b(From): @b(nerak-atem)  (via thang)

fleur, do you have a veil pattern? can you suggest any?
 -@b(nerak-atem) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:41:43 1997
i think people using parts were too busy developing real working applications
that were deployed in the real world to worry about functional specifications.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:42:26 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

See what I meant?
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:44:07 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

karen, there's a singer book "sewing for special occasions" or something
just look at it, it's probably not worth buying for just that
actually, you can borrow min in a couple of weeks if you want
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:44:24 1997
ick.  so parts for java is apparently missing all the cool back end stuff,
all the cool db stuff, all the cool architecture, and is basically the
nifty drag+drop design tool optimized for applet creation.  on the plus
side they've optimized the price to $99, from the astronomical fees
the smalltalk one came in at
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:45:36 1997
@b(From): @b(nerak-atem)  (via thang)

cool. i figure if i bought a library of books it'd still be cheaper to
make it than buy it. they are sooo expensive! :)
 -@b(nerak-atem) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:46:05 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

The problem with any component architecture that is supposed to be
written by a large number of people, is trusting that the code that 
someone is about to reuse does what they think it does.  Without some sore
^sore^sort of formalism, there is absolutely nothing that can be
"certified" about any piece of code.  So without some sort of specification
I have no way of knowing that the component you built is the component I
want to use.  (Unless there are only a small number of components out
there, or the component developers are all within a single, small community.)
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:47:29 1997
Rather than discuss your argument directly, I'll instead point out the
differences between the functional and market deployment states of
OpenDoc and OLE/ActiveX.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:47:52 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

Speaking just from ATK experience -- most components
are single-use. If the text-panel is written by a
trusted developer, that's good enough; lots of things
will use text, but they won't try to use each other.
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:48:13 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

Of course, look at the market deployment of ATK. :)
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:48:19 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

I actually don't know enough about OpenDoc or OLE/ActiveX
for that to mean anything to me.
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:48:25 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

I'm not particularly well written, but
I still feel used
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:48:32 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

Macaroni & Cheese!
Well, "Shells and White Cheddar".
Mmmm.
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:48:55 1997
I'd also venture that ParcPlace has more OO design experience than everyone else on the
planet put together.  Probably not quite true, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:49:39 1997
@b(From): I lied. I don't care.  (via thang)

sigh... meeting time...
and what really sucks is i realise that i still love mandy way too much
(not a bad sucking, butstill kinda happy bitter sucking like.)
 -I lied. I don't care. 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:50:09 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

But that is part of the problem--we know from things like C++ that
classes are simply not enough to support widespread reuse.
(Of course, I know nothing about "parts" or "parkplace"...)
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:50:15 1997
Parts is written by ParcPlace-Digitalk, you can trust that the components
you get from them will do what they're supposed to (barring bugs, etc).
You would subclass them yourself or whatever, and you might buy libraries
from other people, but in general there aren't 10 people writing TextClass.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:50:50 1997
C++ is not the evidence, it's the problem.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:51:17 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

fucking IBM.
I'm trying to enter my "value code" to enter
this contest and it's not working
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:51:18 1997
ParcPlace is the first and leading Smalltalk vendor, formed by ex
Xeros PARC people.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:51:24 1997
Xerox, even.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:51:57 1997
@b(From): Steve Gifford  (via thang)

Reuse has absolutely nothing to do with the language you use
(yeah, yeah, in my opinion).
It's all about good design, good documentation, and a rabid defense again
st (grn) feature creep.
 -Steve Gifford 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:51:58 1997
Digitalk was number 2.  Parts was their RAD framework.  ParcPlace and
Digitalk merged.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:51:59 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

oh goody.  i get to loan my best friend *more* money
i swear to go, I want big paybacks when she's a world famous neurosurgeon
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:52:04 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

OK--If they are the only source of the components, @bold(and they give 
well-defined detailed descriptions of their behavior), I'd believe that
formal specifications are not necessary.
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:52:34 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

yeah, what steve said
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:52:37 1997
Actually I agree with Steve re reuse having nothing to do with language.
However, I still believe that most C++ implementations suck my ass.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:52:56 1997
@b(From): Steve Gifford  (via thang)

Sure.
But you can restrict yourself to a subset of C++ and be quite happy.
 -Steve Gifford 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:53:23 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

My favorite subset of C++ is C
 -gerg Landrum (TM) 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:53:25 1997
@b(From): Brendan Hoar  (via thang)

hey, my power is down to about 120 volts from the 133 it was last
weekend
and the UPS is no longer freaking out.
this is good.
 -Brendan Hoar 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:53:44 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

Right--and in a language in which there is no place for
good documentation (like JavaBeans) I believe a formal spec might be the
only real answer
(like Anna for Ada)
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:53:52 1997
OLE v. OpenDoc:  OpenDoc was open, specified, factored, cool.
the only implementations that shipped were late, bloated, and useless.
OLE sucked, but it was defined and it shipped and it was usable.
Result:  OpenDoc has been dropped, everything is OLE.
 - 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:54:21 1997
@b(From): Steve Gifford  (via thang)

Heh.
But let us not forget macro abuse in C.  That's the moral
equivalent of recursive templates, exceptions, and whatever they invented
this month and dumped into the language.
 -Steve Gifford 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:54:37 1997
@b(From): Dale Newfield  (via thang)

And OLE is based on COM.
JavaBeans is *very* similar to COM
 -Dale Newfield 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:54:44 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

geez.  thang just got an awful lot more geeky than usual.
can't we do this on the list so i can skip what i don't want to read?
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:54:57 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

I think local variables were a mistake.
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:55:07 1997
@b(From): Zarf  (via thang)

And Fleur, we're making up for the chairs yesterday.
 -Zarf 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:55:15 1997
@b(From): fauxgoth  (via thang)

although i keep seing "javabeans" so i guess i really should pay attention
 -fauxgoth 

-------------------------Fri May  9 13:55:23 1997
@b(From): gerg Landrum (TM)  (via thang)

hey fleur, you started the discussion of chris's sex life, so don't
bitch too much
 -gerg Landrum (TM)